Brian Martinez ([info]cluebyfour) wrote,
@ 2008-05-19 12:47:00
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Entry tags:cars, economy

econocrocks
As gas climbs past $4 per gallon, old-school econoboxes are getting some new lovin':

We got a tip yesterday that Geo Metros were being auctioned on eBay Motors for prices above what the tiny cars cost new. This auction for a 1993 Geo Metro XFI with just 22,501 miles ended yesterday with a winning bid of $7,200! Why has the resale value of the Metro and other tiny econocrap cars gone through the roof? The simple answer: gas prices. Vehicles like the Metro, the Suzuki Swift on which it's based, Ford Aspire and Festiva, and Hyundai Excel were around before federal safety regulations and public pressure demanded that every car survive an impact from any angle with five stars. That kind of safety adds weight, and modern econocars are therefore much heavier and therefore less fuel efficient than they were in the early '90s.

This is exactly right.  You can forget about any new car hitting 50 or 60 MPG using just a gasoline-powered engine.  (Worth noting is that the high MPG of older cars like the Metro are based on the EPA's old testing methods, which were less reflective of real-world driving conditions than the methodology they introduced for the 2008 model year.)  With the wide array of emissions-reducing technology and safety gear required for certification on U. S. roads, today's cars are simply too heavy to match the miserly feats of the Metro and its predecessor, the Chevrolet Swift.  Even the new-to-U. S. smart, with its one-liter three-cylinder motor, only manages a combined 36 MPG.

And I'm not sure maximum MPG is worth the trade-off in drivability and creature comforts.  The Metro XFi managed just 46 HP from its three-cylinder motor, so to ensure the car wouldn't lose a drag race to a four-year-old on his Big Wheel, virtually everything not essential to the drivetrain or body integrity was jettisoned, including sound insulation, air conditioning, power steering and other features taken for granted by American drivers.  If saving gas is the only criterion, one might have been better off with a bicycle and a poncho for inclement weather.  Certainly I wouldn't spend $7,200 on a 15-year-old car with the same features as a Pinewood Derby racer just to double my current MPG.  That would make a nice down payment on a new VW Jetta TDI . . . assuming you'll be able to find one.

Here are the current MPG champs as rated by the EPA:

  1. Toyota Prius (hybrid), 48 city/45 highway (CVT transmission)
  2. Honda Civic Hybrid, 40/45 (CVT)
  3. Nissan Altima Hybrid, 35/33 (CVT)
  4. Ford Escape Hybrid (2WD), 34/30 (CVT)
  5. Toyota Camry Hybrid, 33/44 (CVT)
  6. smart fortwo Convertible and Coupe, 33/41 (manumatic, premium fuel required)
  7. Toyota Yaris, 29/36 (manual)
  8. Mini Cooper and Mini Clubman, 28/37 (manual, premium required)
  9. Toyota Corolla, 28/37 (manual)
  10. Honda Fit, 28/34 (manual)

As you can see, hybrids dominate; but I think it's ridiculous that a car as small and light as the smart can only manage 33 MPG in the city on a three-cylinder motor.  OTOH, it's probably nowhere near as punishing to drive as that Metro of yore.



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[info]flainn
2008-05-19 06:52 pm UTC (link)
My '99 Escort, which has 162,000 miles on it, still gets 50 MPG at 65 MPH, provided no wind and I've got it on cruise control. Typically it gets in the high 30s driving around town, and even when I was delivering pizzas in it I never saw it drop below 24.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 07:01 pm UTC (link)
My Corolla typically averages 26-27 MPG around town, but that's with an automatic. And I run the A/C a lot, which costs me another couple of MPG during the summer.

We're moving offices soon, which means I no longer can use the train, so I'd really like to have an even more fuel-efficient car soon. Probably not a Metro, though!

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 07:24 pm UTC (link)
my father's '86 Honda Accord got 46 consistently for the first 80K miles of its existence, even topping out once at 51 mpg. 512 miles on 10.02 gallons - 99% of it highway driving. I remember that well.

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[info]flainn
2008-05-19 06:53 pm UTC (link)
You have to put premium in the fortwo? What a load of bullshit! Why the hell does a 3-banger non-turbo need premium fuel?!

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 06:58 pm UTC (link)
The only reason I can think of is it has a high compression ratio. But I think it's ridiculous, too. The Mini I can understand (at least for the blown motor), but there's no excuse for an urban runabout to require premium.

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[info]flainn
2008-05-19 07:00 pm UTC (link)
My ex-wife [info]missauria has been looking at the fortwo as a replacement for her Prizm, which is costing her almost as much in oil as it is in gas these days. She got me slightly interested in the fortwo as well.

But the fact that I have to put premium in it, for me, removes much of the economy of the thing. Like you, I'd much sooner start looking at a TDI if I'm going to have to spend that much on fuel.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 07:05 pm UTC (link)
The Yaris hatchback would be a better buy, I think. You don't give up much MPG, it costs about the same as a fortwo, and it has a back seat and real cargo space.

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 07:43 pm UTC (link)
and it can only manage, at best 41 miles per gallon??

what on Earth did they do so badly wrong with that car? It weighs 730 kilograms, which is about 1600 pounds... it's not exactly colossal.

the European version is rated at 69 mpg for the diesel, which is still not impressive for a featherweight car.

what is so badly wrong with that car? The TDI weighs like 2900 pounds and gets 50 mpg out of a diesel.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 07:54 pm UTC (link)
I think we've already gone over this: emissions standards, new EPA testing methodology, Federally-mandated safety gear, etc. etc. ad barf nauseum. Want to live dangerously, move to Norway. ;-)

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 07:56 pm UTC (link)
must be the emissions killing it, because I thought I had figured the safety gear into the weight comparison.

I wonder how many MPG the TDI will end up at when the EPA is done with it.

also: Norway is about the least dangerous place on earth. I swear, if you drive off a cliff, there's a government office at the bottom with a midlevel bureaucrat ready to haul out a trampoline at a moment's notice.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 08:04 pm UTC (link)
Safety gear can affect more than just weight. They may have to put really ugly bumpers on the car, for example, which can affect aerodynamics and weight. (That doesn't happen so much now as it used to; most automakers design their cars with U. S. regs in mind.)

I would expect the new TDI to get close to 50 MPG. I sure hope so, at least, after all the hype.

I swear, if you drive off a cliff, there's a government office at the bottom with a midlevel bureaucrat ready to haul out a trampoline at a moment's notice.

Ah, the wonders of an oil-revenue-fueled bureaucracy! Although unlike Venezuela I'm assuming Norwegians actually have, you know, food.

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 08:27 pm UTC (link)
superficially, the US and Europe smart cars seem to look the same to me... but I Am Not An Atmosphere, so what do I know.

yeah, Norwegians have plenty of food. Fish, fish, and I hear this year they just introduced something new: fish.

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[info]ilcylic
2008-05-19 07:24 pm UTC (link)
I've got a '71 240z (stock curb weight with original cast iron I6: 2200 lbs) just waiting for a 1.9 TDI motor transplant...

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 07:38 pm UTC (link)
Interesting project. The TDIs have all been front drive, though--what will you have to do to send the power to the rear?

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[info]ilcylic
2008-05-19 07:54 pm UTC (link)
Adapter plate. There's a company that makes a kit to bolt a TDI motor to a RWD toyota 5 speed.

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 07:25 pm UTC (link)
where's the TDI on that list?

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 07:34 pm UTC (link)
It's not officially available in the U. S. yet. VW is looking to roll it out in the fall.

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 07:36 pm UTC (link)
oh okay.

in other news, the PT Cruiser gets 19 miles per gallon. I asked for an economy car rental - they gave me that. It was missing cruise control and some other amenities, so I guess they thought it was what I wanted.

I think "56 mpg and cruise control and two cigarette-lighter power adapters" is too much to ask for in the US.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 07:39 pm UTC (link)
Since when did the PT Cruiser ever count as an economy car?

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 07:41 pm UTC (link)
they originally offered to upgrade me to an SUV, hoping that I was some brain-dead valley girl who would be happy with such a thing. After reminding them that gas was $8.80 per gallon (with their "you forgot to gas it up before returning it!" penalty), I asked for "an economy or compact car", because in my experience with all rental companies, the two classes are the same. I've gotten a 'compact' Aveo and an 'economy' Cobalt before (Aveo is, officially, the smaller one).

maybe the PT Cruiser is a compact car now??

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 07:52 pm UTC (link)
Heh, well according to the EPA, the PT Cruiser is an SUV. But I don't think rental agencies use the same categories as the EPA does (they base their classifications on interior volume).

Still, "economy" class should be compacts and smaller. Certainly not a freakin' wagon.

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 07:54 pm UTC (link)
alas, no freakin' took place within the wagon.

it sure does have a lot of interior volume, and a lot of terrible design decisions, like the faux-chrome dashboard (real great for reflecting onto the windshield and ruining my shots - and didn't they read "Unsafe at Any Speed"?) and the tiny rear windows and colossal pillars that give it the rearward visibility associated with a box truck... and oh yeah, a turning radius that makes the USS Iowa seem nimble.

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[info]whip_lash
2008-05-20 01:08 am UTC (link)
I'd get one, if it weren't, you know, a diesel version of the gayest car on Earth. And if I hadn't just paid off my Sonata, which gets 30 city anyway.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-20 01:20 am UTC (link)
Jettas are gay? I thought Subaru owned that distinction.

Anyway, gays tend to be smart, culturally sophisticated and wealthy, and if I happen to share those qualities with them, I can deal with driving a "gay" car.

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[info]ilcylic
2008-05-20 02:11 am UTC (link)
Subarus are gay? No f'n way. Practical cargo capacity, reasonable mileage, and AWD? Totally awesome.

Though, if VW releases a 4motion TDI Jetta Wagon, Subarus lose.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-20 02:37 am UTC (link)
I meant it literally. Subaru is a very gay-friendly automaker.

Believe me, I wouldn't turn down an STI if it showed up in my driveway.

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[info]ilcylic
2008-05-20 02:56 am UTC (link)
Oh. Well, that's ok, then.

I should have known better to think you were using "gay" in its colloquial slang form as meaning "negative".

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[info]smjayman
2008-05-19 07:27 pm UTC (link)
Got a '95 Corolla (manual) that gets 31/36 with the AC on all day long. I paid $900 for it, and unless it completely destructs, I doubt I will unload it. It has 157,000 miles on it now and is still chuggin' along nicely.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 07:35 pm UTC (link)
The automatic really hurts the fuel economy on my car. That, and shitty oxygenated fuel.

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[info]smjayman
2008-05-19 07:54 pm UTC (link)
I'm stuck with the same shitty oxygenated fuel, I think everybody is at this point.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 07:56 pm UTC (link)
Ah. I thought only the "high-pollution" urban areas were required to use it, although I think even Denver lost that designation a few years ago.

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[info]ilcylic
2008-05-20 02:11 am UTC (link)
The oxygenation is ethanol. It's a federal mandate now.

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[info]blimey85
2008-05-19 07:44 pm UTC (link)
I'm driving a nice Avalon but the damn thing only gets 20 to 21 average. I haven't checked city vs highway but overall that's what I'm getting. Sucks ass.

My Camry got right around 31 on long trips which was great and it never got down to 21... never. At least I cruise in comfort though.

My next car will be all about the gas mileage. Maybe after I move I can find a bio-diesel co-op that filters fast food grease for cheap fuel or something.

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 08:29 pm UTC (link)
one of my coworkers is doing that, actually. He knows someone at a Del Taco and he's converting their waste grease into biodiesel. Says it costs him about 47 cents per gallon, and that'll go down once he scales up his operation some.

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[info]blimey85
2008-05-19 08:49 pm UTC (link)
What kind of power does he get? Is it noticeably less? My dad used to run drip gas way back when... it's apparently the crap that drips out of the oil rig pump thing. He brought that home in barrels and used it but said that he had hardly any power when going up a hill. For some reason he never thought to mix it with regular gas.

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[info]agentsteel53
2008-05-19 08:52 pm UTC (link)
I'll ask. When we conversed, he didn't mention any power problem... he said that the only problem is that he has to keep it heated... I don't know about the exact details of his heat pump setup, so I'll ask for more details.

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[info]flainn
2008-05-19 10:48 pm UTC (link)
The veggie oil conversion kits generally have a copper coil that circulates hot coolant through the veggie oil tank. You just install tees in your coolant system to redirect the coolant.

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[info]deadpansev
2008-05-19 10:02 pm UTC (link)
I miss my '87 Honda Civic 4 speed, it got a consistant 40-45 miles to the gallon. I sold it off to my cousin when I bought my S10 and he wrecked it within two months.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 10:06 pm UTC (link)
Ugh, that sucks. I had a '97 Accent that got 30+ MPG around town, then I sold it to LeMont. Eventually I just gave him the car (he didn't have to pay on it anymore), and a few months later some pukes stole it.

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[info]actionjackson36
2008-05-19 10:28 pm UTC (link)
I have a Honda Fit and it's rated 37/33, not sure where the 34/28 comes from. In fact I just came back from a road trip where I averaged around 36.5 mpg (all freeway).

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-19 10:36 pm UTC (link)
The 34/28 represents the new EPA rating methods, which downgraded fuel economy figures by about 10% for most cars. (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ratings2008.shtml) That's why you can't compare numbers from '08 to previous models, although the EPA has converted the old numbers on their Web site for comparison purposes.

And as always, YMMV. My actual numbers are usually less than the EPA estimates, but I do virtually all my driving in town.

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[info]actionjackson36
2008-05-19 10:43 pm UTC (link)
Yeah mine is 2007 (and automatic, though those are supposed to get worse mileage than manual, so that's weird) so maybe that's why. I actually got close to 40 on my way back it seems (see journal entry).

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[info]_luaineach
2008-05-19 11:26 pm UTC (link)
I like your posts.

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[info]cluebyfour
2008-05-20 01:21 am UTC (link)
Thanks!

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